#6: Unlocking the Potential of Web3 for Purpose-Driven Entrepreneurs with Will Preble

Will: 0:00

True for me. Like I had, I had success. Um, I thought I just wanted to make it. I thought I just wanted the money. I thought I just wanted to, you know, be relevant and, um, and create something that got traction in the world. But I realize that if I, if I do that and have success and I'm not aligned, I'm so unhappy.

Adam: 0:21

So if it's all about impact, right?

Will: 0:23

Is that what you're saying? It's about aligning the money, the impacts, and like how

Adam: 0:29

I'm using my voice. Hey friends. Welcome to Voice and Impact, an honest podcast about the journey of entrepreneurship. We're not here to tell you how to live your

Will: 0:37

life. We're here to have real

Adam: 0:39

conversations about real things. My name

Will: 0:43

is Adam and

Adam: 0:44

I'm so grateful you're here with us. So I'd like to welcome Will Preble. That's how I say your last name, right?

Will: 0:50

Preble.

Adam: 0:50

Preble, yeah. Pebble with the p. Treble. With a P. Are you a musician? Oh, we, I. What kind of You've tried, you've dabbled with me. If I recall correctly.

Will: 0:58

I've, I've dabbled. I used to, I used to do choir. I used to, I was, I was in a traveling choir in high school traveling, so, and I played piano. Till age 14. So I, I have some musical background. I wouldn't consider myself a musician necessarily, but I, I think everyone, you know, has some kind of creative

Adam: 1:17

side to that, so I totally agree. Yeah. Um, well I've been trying to get a conversation on the calendar with you for probably nine months now. Um, and, and, and a, and a very selfish level. It seems like the only way I could get you on the calendar is if I invited you to the podcast, but I'm just teasing everybody. Um, I'm glad you're here. You have been up to a lot, right? You've built a media agency. It sounds like you're kind of transitioning out of that and now you're building what you're calling Ascension. Is that right? As ascend as ascendance? Yeah. Okay, cool. Well, well just give us a little bit about, uh, where you've been and where, where you are now. Like I just want an update, like what's going on in your world

Will: 1:56

For sure. Yeah. So I've spent the last three, three and a half years, um, kind of at the intersection of, of media. Um, entertainment and like emerging tech. Um, so I, I've been running a media agency, which I still own, still, still operates, um, but I'm spending probably 60, 70% of my time right now kind of developing some new projects, which I'll get into here in a little bit. But, um, my, my curiosity has, has really always been, you know, um, with the intersection of media and tech. So in, in 2018, I was doing machine learning in the corporate world, and, and I really, I just kind of saw what was going on with social media and, and having a technical understanding of like the algorithms and stuff behind it. I was like, There's, we gotta make something better at some point. I don't know what that's gonna be. Um, but I, I felt some sense of calling or responsibility to, as someone with a, with a tech background, get into the media space and just, you know, see where that took me and follow, follow my curiosity there. So I, I started a media company, um, worked with brands like the Armory Live Nation on the entertainment side. Done, um, did one of the largest voter turnout campaigns in the state of Minnesota in 2020 with the Minneapolis Foundation. I've worked with United Properties, some of the Poll A companies, um, so, you know, a little bit of mix of, of corporate and, um, entertainment. Some artists, artists influencer working there too as well. Um, but I really have seen over the past, I, I guess it's been like 18 months or so, um, What's been happening with Web three and I, for those of you who don't know what Web three is, I'll just quickly give a definition. So basically it's the next iteration of the internet and it's being built around blockchain technology. Um, and a lot of, a lot of the artists that I work with, and a lot of the brands that I've been working with have been either looking at how they're gonna get involved in Web three or actively like launching. Some of the artists I've worked with have launched N F T collections and, um, started to, you know, figure out how to monetize and market their brand in Web three. And

Adam: 4:17

so, yeah. Well before, because I know we're gonna dive into the nitty gritty of this, like I know we are. Um, but before, before we do blockchain, like I feel like there's even still a huge community who doesn't even know what blockchain is, and this is still all very, very new. What, what's blockchain and, and why does it matter?

Will: 4:34

Yeah, so blockchain is essentially like a database. It's, it's a, it's essentially a distributed database where, um, Your transactions, your, uh, base, all your, your app activity, your, whether you're using currency, whether you're using, um, you know, like a play to earn game on Ethereum or you're, you're buying and selling things, um, you're exchanging identity information, you know, whatever you're doing on. A blockchain base is, uh, in theory, it's not always in practice, but in theory it's, it's decentralized. So all of the users of the network are owners of the network, and you become an owner of the network through holding its tokens, right? And so instead of like Google or Facebook owning all these centralized servers where they control your data, um, they control commerce. They control everything that's happening on their network. Um, effectively, blockchain gives us a way to decentralize the ownership or return it to the commons, um, of digital

Adam: 5:42

space. Why, why, from your perspective, my, my mic stand just broke, um, but we're not stopping here. Why, from your perspective is that

Will: 5:50

revolutionary? I think it, it's revolutionary because we're, we're living in a time where people are spending more resources. attention and energy on the dis digital world and the physical world. And so, like, if you think about the physical world, right? We have property rights, we have, you know, governance, we have like ways that we do things, um, that people have just generally agreed upon for hundreds of years, right? And, um, with the digital world, that hasn't necessarily been the case. We've kind of gotten into this paradigm in, in a very short amount of time, really, you know, two decades or so where a very small group of people or small set of companies controls the majority of the digital world, right? And they make the majority of the revenue and they control the data. They control your identity. Um, and, and they control the flows of information, right? And, and you don't as a user necessarily have any vested interest or ownership in it other than like, you, you get to use it, you get to have an account, et cetera. Um, and obviously you can buy stock in a public company, so, but, With blockchain, we can, for example, have a, if, if Instagram or Twitter, for example, Twitter would be the best example, say Twitter decided to decentralized. You could take that protocol of, of Twitter, the social network, and you could open source it, uh, allow anyone to contribute to it and allow the community who's, who's the users to actually, um, to actually own it and vote on the future of the Twitter as a protocol. Um, so if, if the community, if the users of Twitter say like, You know, we, we have an issue with, um, you know, an issue with bots, an issue with trolls and misinformation. Let's do something about it. Then you, as a user could then go take your, your tokens or your vest at stake in that network because you're a user and maybe you earn them, maybe you bought them. Um, and, and you could maybe have more of a say in, in where that public good or that public service goes instead of that just being a private network that some company owns, and you don't really have any control over w

Adam: 8:03

But why, why is that important to you? Like, why, why is transitioning the model of ownership to an inclusive model where you're involving the community, you're listening to the community, and you're forming the technology around what the community wants. Why is that important to you and why

Will: 8:20

is it relevant? I think it's, it's important because when we, when we developed web two, we, we didn't really. Develop new forms of, of governance. We just, we developed new technology, but the way that we used the technology was basically governed by old legal structures and, and old, uh, financial structures that had weren't really developed in the age of, of the type of digital technology that we have today. And so, um, what that created was a scenario where, um, there was just a lot of misalignment of incentive structure. So like, Instagram, for example, is incentivized to take as much of my attention as possible so that they can sell it to advertisers. I'm not saying they're sitting behind their computers, you know, twiddling their fingers being like, how can I get more of his, his attention and control him? Um, but that is just, that's fundamentally how the app makes money, right? And it's how the algorithm is programmed and it's how the algorithm is programmed. And so we, when we develop these algorithms that have such a powerful, I mean people filter their lives through Instagram, it, it is fundamentally changed human psychology. Um, for better or for worse. I'm not saying that's completely a bad thing, um, but it is something we should be conscious of. And now that we are conscious of that, I would hope that the next set of algorithms that changes the way we interact with the world, whether that's with our ar HUDs, that, you know, give us heads up for information as we're walking down the street to, you know, the next version of the social media platforms that we, we use. Um, I would hope that the algorithms that we develop are designed to have better incentive structures to unlock human potential instead of just monetizing it and controlling it. Yeah. Well, I

Adam: 10:13

mean, when, when I look at the systems of the world, um, right, like, like governmental systems, financial systems, um, uh, educational systems, food systems, like. When it comes to systems and how human beings are organized, there's room, we're kind of like, all of these systems are kind of like, well wait. What we're doing isn't working. There's room for new ideas and innovation. So what is it about the technology space specifically that garnishes your attention to want to innovate and, and, and,

Will: 10:49

uh, empower? Yeah, because I think technology gives us the highest leverage opportunity to actually change things. Like if you look at, again, going back to the example of social media, 12 years ago, nobody knew what Instagram is. Today, 95% of, at least the people that I know in, in America and other first world countries around the world are, are using it right on a daily basis. And so whether you like it or not, That piece of technology has proliferated across the world and changed the way that we work, change the way that we live, change the way that we consume information. Um, so if we want to look at the world today and say, how do I, how do I solve some of these problems that we're, we're seeing? Right. You know, 2020 was a, I think a very revealing time both internally and externally for a lot of us, especially in America, just seeing, you know, some of the social problems and in injustices and, and broken healthcare systems and, um, things that, you know, now a lot of people are aware of, right. And if we want to say like, how are, how am I gonna contribute to solving some of those problems? I think technology is probably our, our best shot, um, as a lever to solve the problems, not as the end solution in and of itself. So it's about accessibility. It's about accessibility, and it's about like, if we want to., if we want to build a more abundant system, um, I think we build it with technology. We don't, we don't go into the old system and say, I'm gonna fix every single problem and tweak every lever until it's perfect. I think we just build a fundamentally better system and eventually the old system just transitions, becomes

Adam: 12:34

obsolete. Right? That's the quote I think. Right? Who, who is that?

Will: 12:37

Buckmaster Fuller. He has a lot of good ones. He probably, I

Adam: 12:40

don't remember who it is, but the, the basic premise is, is, is to, to, to build a new system so that the old system becomes obsolete. But when, when I look at Web 2.0, like let's stay in this social media space, there's a light, a lot of psychological, intentionally crafted, psychological, malice warfare. Uh, those are kind of complicated and, and derogatory words, but there's, there's a lot of people who are trying to change fundamental psychology and behavior. To swing in a certain direction, whether it's to vote a certain way, whether it's to believe something detrimental about somebody else, whether it's to, uh, to buy something. And so, so for me, when I think of Web 2.0, like the metaphor that comes to mind is like, you know, if we were to backtrack a thousand years and to look at humanity, you know, there were empires and there were kingdoms, and you knew when you were in a kingdom because there were walls around the city to kind of like protect it from intrusion. But only now in the current world, I think there are kingdoms and, and empires, but the walls are invisible now. And so that's kind of like how I view the social media space. But if I, again, back a thousand years, if I was on a horse riding past a kingdom that was on fire, you bet your ass. I would be going inside that kingdom and I would be trying to help. evacuate and save the people that I can within the kingdom. And so when I look at the Web 2.0, I think it's safe to say that a lot of people in my network, like for example, my my mother-in-law just deleted all the social media apps from her phone. Today. This is happening, this is a trend. People are realizing that it's toxic on their health. It's toxic on the way that they perceive themselves and people are, are deleting them. And there's a huge entrepreneurial wave of people who are like, yeah, this, the platforms are toxic. Like, I'm not, I'm just not gonna post any ideas on the platforms. I'm not going to to to, to engage in them any, in any way. And a lot of people use the phrase like, cuz because participation is perpetuation. But for me that feels so backwards. Like for me, the algorithm responds to human behavior. Like that is fundamentally how the algorithm is programmed. And so is, is it about the human behavior? Is it about the algorithm? Is it about the type of content that's available? Um, but from my perspective, it's even more relevant for me to share my ideas in a kingdom that's on fire than a kingdom that is not. Does this make sense? I'm curious if how this lands for you and what, what your thoughts are.

Will: 15:32

Well, I couple things to go off of there. I would say that, so you said the algorithm responds to human behavior and, and that's absolutely true. It's optimizing itself around your behavior. Right? Um, that's why I think the web 3.0 or web 2.5, maybe, let's call it as, as we're kind of starting to integrate blockchain technology and integrate, integrate like token incentives into these applications, right. Um, having. Tokenized application where your users say, I'm a user of the app, I hold the token, and so if the app grows, I benefit. Right. Um, that in and of itself is a shift in incentive structures where at least the user is aligned with the success of the app. Right. Um, because right now if your application, your Instagram, let's just use that as as the example again, Instagram is developing algorithms more and more sophisti sophisticated algorithms to deliver me content and keep my attention on the app. Um, and they're. app is incentivized to monetize my attention, then the algorithm is just gonna take my behavior and keep making itself more and more addictive. Right? It's not necessarily incentivized to give me good information. It's not necessarily incentivized to help me connect with the right people for my business or connect with, you know, information sources or collaborators, um, that could unlock my potential. It just wants to make more money off my attention, right? Um, and so we have to do something about that incentive structure if we want the algorithm to, and you know, as we get into more and more sophisticated ai, if we want AI to actually be beneficial to us as humans, um, we have to have an incentive structure that's underlying this application or, or this company, um, where that algorithm is incentivized to unlock my potential in some way. Um, for example, like if, if I. Have a business and I'm using Instagram, and I'm able to do more business and get my message out to more people. Um, you know, maybe there's some kind of incentive structure where the, the application gets compensated for that. Or there's, you know, tokens that get dispersed, um, to the nodes that help me do that. Right. Um, again, this is, we're speculating, right? There's a lot of possibilities. Um, but I think we need to think about this and figure out a better way to incentivize these algorithms and applications to help me as a human and not just again, like, take my time and attention and sell it, because that's just not gonna scale well as we get into more and more immersive

Adam: 18:19

technology. Yeah. But from, from your perspective, web three, like how long, and this is speculation, but from your perspective, how long until Web three is like. Mainstream, like it outweighs web two in terms of user attention.

Will: 18:35

Yeah. I think the biggest problem with Web three as we're calling it today, is that, um, web three right now, there's, I saw a meme on social media the other day. There's more VCs in Web three right now than users. Right. Um, the problem, that's how you share that actually. Yeah. The, the problem with web three right now is that it's a lot of smart people who are like really excited about their technology. Um, they're not building a ton of bridges for like, people who don't really care about understanding blockchain architecture to like get onto web three and start using it. Um, How fast Web three scales will, depends on how quickly we can ex abstract away the difficulty of using web three. Because like back to the accessibility piece. Accessibility because, um, it could be five years, it could be 15 years. I, I would be optimistic that by 2030, um, I would say a lot of the information layer of the internet will be decentralized, um, to an extent at least running on blockchain technology. Um, , I don't know how decentralized it, it will be. Um, that is, that is really gonna depend on, you know, the decisions that those of us who are building in web three today, uh, you know, make what we do over the next two, three years. I think we'll set the tone. Yeah.

Adam: 20:05

Well, the reason, the reason I ask is because, you know, the, the type of people that I collaborate, and I presume this is true of, of you as well. They're, they're the type of people who are really trying to make a difference, right? Like they're really trying to contribute, they're really trying to, the language you are, that you are really resonating with these days is potential, right? Yeah. They're really trying to help unlock the potential of the people around them and in their community and guide them back towards themselves and understand themselves with more, more depth and clarity, which is to the benefit of, of everybody. And you know, there's a lot of hype in the web. Three space. People are selling art for millions of dollars and the Ethereum and the Bitcoin and like, there's been hype and hype and hype and Gary V is all about it. And, and, and for the people who have their feet on the ground right now trying to make a difference, it also sometimes feels, so I. Like it feels out of reach. And so from my perspective, web three has taught us some things. It's taught us to like honor people's attention. It's taught us that we want to put together systems that, that everybody has stakes in. Mm-hmm., everybody receives reward and engagement and involvement on the direction of, of the company and the monetary gains of the company. And so, like the question I have for you is, like, web 2.0 is more relevant I would say, on the day-to-day basis right now than Web 3.0. And I'm the kind of person that isn't interested in waiting to make a difference, waiting to apply the lessons, waiting to create infrastructural change. And so from your perspective, what and how can we apply to the Web 2.0 infrastructure with right now our feet on the ground? That are lessons from the Web 3.0 vision?

Will: 22:01

Yeah. I think one phrase that comes to mind is localization, is decentralization. So returning to a model where, again, like you said, a lot of these things seem outta reach like a lot of these pie in the sky. We're gonna change the world, realign all the incentive structures, make it abundant for everyone, you know, that's great in theory. Um, but again, like how if I walk out the store, what do I do to actually, you know, make a difference? Right. Um, I think starting with. Local communities, and not just local, I mean local communities like in a physical location or digital communities, you know, just digital communities of like-minded people that come together around a shared purpose. I think, um, the, the best way to use Web three technology right now as is, as a mechanism for organizing, um, web Three Tech stacks can organize people and have, and have proven to be effective at organizing people really quickly when applied right and when communicated. Right. For example, there was a group of people that, um, wanted to buy a copy of the Constitution and they pooled together 47 million in like two weeks, right? Again, that, that's like these, all these examples, Right now that are in pop culture around buying expensive art and, and stuff like that with DAOs, um, decentralized autonomous organizations is, is what a Dao meant. Just for, for context, um, a lot of these seem kind of out there, but if you apply that same thinking to like a social problem, like say you have, you know, a group of people that wanted to get together around, um, sharing access to holistic medicine and, and spreading, um, spreading information around like acupuncture and, and traditional Chinese medicine, let's niche it really down. Specifically we're gonna create a dow around traditional Chinese medicine and acupuncture. We want to get more people certified. We want to get more information out there. We want to have content, um, and we want to help people be able to wean off of like, opiates and pharmaceuticals and, and just have a more, um, a more holistically, you know, abundant life through their health. Right. Um, we could, we could create a group together. If we had a hundred people, you know, say around the, around the globe who align with that mission, um, we could use the Web three tech stack to organize that group. We could create a, an organization, um, that operates based on the principles that we give it. Um, we could, you know, bring in a developer to help us structure that. We could have a shared currency, we could take funding. We could sell an N F T collection that has some kind of utility in our organization. Um, none of that is impossible with Web two technology, so I, I don't think it's necessarily like we have to, the Web three tech stack is like the only savior. Um, but it is a really interesting way to. Shift how we're thinking about organizing groups and developing organizations, um, that have more agility, you know, across borders and, and across, um, across disciplines than maybe a traditional like legal setup would. Totally.

Adam: 25:26

Well, I mean, I imagine like even that I think for some entrepreneurs is like totally outta reach for them, right? Like, the idea of, well, how do I find a hundred people, one, two, how do I find sources for, for funding three? Like, they're not used to building a team yet. They're kind of more in the social, or excuse me, the solo entrepreneur route. Yeah. Um, and so like there's a lot of infrastructure and financial need in order to even explore the web three, web three space. So what would you say to the person who is. By their own, whether it's personal limitations or just financial means or like experience, just their own limitations. Where they're at right now, web three all together is totally out of reach and they're just trying to do their best with the tools and infrastructure that they know how to use in the web. Two, what kind of advice do you have for them to apply some of the things Web three that has taught us

Will: 26:28

in the web two environment? Yeah, I mean that's really, that right there is really why I started Ascendance, right? So, um, there are, there are a ton of really empathetic, um, Good-hearted, hardworking, intelligent people around the world who just don't have access, right? To funding, to community, um, to the infrastructure that they need to, you know, take some of their ideas or take some of their good intentions and, and do something with them, um, with a web three tech stack. Or even not, not just with web three, but just in general, right? To be able to manifest, um, what they're trying to bring into the world. Into the world on a bigger scale and, and impact more people. Right? Um, so I think one of the, well, two answers to that question, um, One of the most important concepts of Web three is composability, right? So if you solve a problem once, it shouldn't have to be solved again. Um, one of the things that I'm putting together right now around, um, ascendants is, is really a community for visionary leaders, um, to be able to find those collaborators, to find that community and, and find, um, the resources to bring their ideas into the world. Um, for example, I have a, I have a friend who has a product called Drop Chain, right? His name's Carter. He, he co-wrote the white paper for my creator Token app with me. Brilliant dude. Um, CTO O of another blockchain company called Weblon. That's, that's doing some cool stuff. He has this product called Drop Chain, where you can pretty much like he. Take your idea, take your your Web two idea or you know, any kind of basic application and bring it onto web three with a couple lines of code, um, on the Aand network. So if, if you wanna set up a Dao, if you want to, and again, I understand there are barrier to even some of these concepts. So, um, that's, that is part of it is just like that basic education of, you know, what is this stuff and how could we start to thinking about using it, um, is also very important. But let's say you, you've done a little bit of research and maybe you understand some of the concepts, um, but you don't know how to get. You're, you know, I wanna start this Chinese traditional medicine, Dao and I have two people, right? I don't have a hundred people. I have two people. We wanna start putting something together. Um, but we have no tech experience, right? And we, we don't know. We, we looked up Dao on Google and so we, we know what it is, right? But, um, we don't really know how to apply it. Um, ideally I'd like for people like that to be able to come, to, come to Ascendants, come to. Community and be able to go find a product or find a solution that's already built and plug and play it right. Like if one person develops a Dow model that makes sense for a small community, um, to organize and get information out into the world. You know, maybe it's a content doo, it's just people who are trying to come to gather around a specific topic. Um, and maybe there's, you know, some basic governance models in there. Um, there's, you know, some mechanism for like organizational structure that can start really small and then kind of scale at your own pace. Um, they can just take that code and, and take all the information that's been created around it, um, set it up and, and be good to go. They don't have to learn how to write smart contracts. They don't have to learn how to do any of the backend stuff. Um, they just gotta be passionate about something and have some kind of expertise that's valuable for the world. And we can probably find. Some way to amplify that idea with the technologies, the products, um, the consultants that we have access to. And then from there, you know, you can show, if you can show traction, right? You can show that, uh, well people actually do care about acupuncture and Chinese traditional medicine, and I have 10 people that responded. Um, you know, I set up this, Dao set up this, um, content and now I have some people responding to my information, right? Well then we could, we could go and connect you to, uh, you know, potential funding sources or grant sources. Uh, there's a company called Storage, a decentralized cloud storage company that's funding like a lot of really good socially impactful ideas right now, even at like five to 10 to $15,000 ranges, right? Um, fast grants that you can get really quickly via tokens. Um, so we can help you maybe find the initial seed funding to test your idea from there. You know, maybe scale it to, if it's a aligned with our mission of unlocking human potential, there's probably people in our community that will resonate with it, that will support you, um, creates your minimum viable community, so to speak, instead of your, you know, it's not just product and web three, it's it's community that's really valuable because if the product is, you know, pieced together from all these Lego parts of other stuff that other people have built, it's, it's not necessarily about building a huge moat around your proprietary technology anymore. It's just, it's just finding the right pieces to provide value to your community. Um, if you, which

Adam: 31:46

I think is applicable in the web 2.06, that is immediately

Will: 31:49

absolutely applicable and wet to, because we had this whole culture. This whole tech startup culture that was all about like, how can I own this piece of tech and control all the access to it, control the flows of capital, um, and just like control human potential instead of unlocking it. And the web three ethos of if I solve the problem once I, anyone should be able to take that solution and apply it. Um, and how does my network not control the flow of, of resources, capital, human potential, but unlock it. That can be applied to any type of business

Adam: 32:27

model. Yeah. The model that I'm really appreciating, and I think you'll relate to this too, is Alex or Mosey. Mm-hmm.. It's just about giving, it's just about sharing and helping people think and, and scale and like what do you need for a business and how, as he says it, how do you play the game? And I think that is, there's so much earnestness. in that model that a lot of people can learn from. And it seems like it's almost directly what you're speaking

Will: 32:53

towards. A hundred percent. Yeah. He, he does a really good job of just, again, like free game, providing that access to information for people, um, free of charge. I mean, he just, he just gives it all away. And then at a certain point, you know, if you're at the level of companies that he would come in and invest in, and, um, I believe it's like over 3 million revenue or something. Yeah, three to 5 million a year. Yeah. Um, then it, it's beneficial for him because he has all this visibility and so he's done a really good job of creating and like abundance based ecosystem around his brand because like he's, he's giving away a lot of value and then whatever value that he gets back, um, which of course he will get value back. Um, it's mutually beneficial for everyone involved. It, it seems. Cool. Well, that's really fascinating. I've always. Really thought

Adam: 33:48

about this sort of like 2.0 relevance versus 3.0 ethos, and it's really fun to dive into that conversation. I wanna shift here for, for, for pivot here for a little bit and talk about your journey. So you, you and I are on a similar path right now in that we both have just launched a new brand. We're both stepping into the idea of expressing our ideas with more fullness, more clarity, more confidence, more ease, um, and just kind of throw in ourselves at the process of sharing. And so I'm just wondering what that journey has been like for you so far with Ascendants. You know, you've, you've started a podcast,

Will: 34:25

obviously

Adam: 34:26

your sharing ideas in new and innovative ways. What's that been like for you? How, how, how does it feel to share, to share and try to amplify these ideas?

Will: 34:36

Yeah, I mean it, for me it's, you know, key theme in my life this past year has been alignment.. So the, uh, the more that I really kind of look within myself and determine like, what am I supposed to bring into the world, um, and really, really sit with that and really search kind of the intersection of my areas of expertise and what I'm, I'm passionate about and, and kind of see as a need in the world. Um, that's where when I'm able to like really find that intersection of expertise, passion, and like real world problem solving, um, I, it something in me feels right about that. And, um, the, the hardest part has been, I, I've kind of had this concept in me for a while, I think. You know, ascendants is kind of about a new model of growth. Um, bajai, the former CTO of Coinbase, had this tweet earlier this year that was like, you know, we're not in a developing and undeveloped world anymore. We're in a ascending and descending world. And if you look at America like we're developed, but in a lot of ways we're not. We're descending because we're, we're printing tons of money. We're only optimizing for short-term metrics like G D P, um, you know, a lot of socially and, uh, health-wise, like we're falling on, on a lot of metrics actually. And, and so thinking about ascendants is like a more holistic model for growth and, and really, you know, pushing the limits of human potential as we think about the future, right? Coming at a faster and faster rate. I, I think that's something that, um, more people need to talk about. And, and the more that I talk about it, the more that I. try to get to the core essence of, of what it is that I'm supposed to speak on and bring into the world. Um, you know, the stronger my voice resonates and the more opportunities then come back to me as, as well. I think the, I've, I've tried a lot of things as an entrepreneur and I've had success at a lot of different things, but I've also, I find that, um, if I'm not aligned spiritually and, and not really, um, not really doing what I know I'm supposed to be doing, I, I'm never able to sustain that success. Um, or, or I burn out. So yeah, I can

Adam: 37:02

really relate to that. Yeah. Right. Like this brand for me has also been all about alignment. And I've always been the voice guy. I've always been the voice guy. But, but, but what has the process been like for you stepping into your voice with more, more expression, like, did you have imposter syndrome? Did it feel strange to listen to yourself, express these ideas in new ways? Like, What was your own personal journey like?

Will: 37:26

Yeah, well it started with, back in February, I just deleted everything on my Instagram cuz I was, I I wasn't, I knew I one

Adam: 37:37

you de delete one post by one post by like, well, cause that's a

Will: 37:40

manual promise. I think I archived it, but it's still on there somewhere. Dedication. No, I, I completely reset my, cuz that was the social media I had. The biggest still is the social media. I have the biggest following on and, um, not that I have an insane following or anything, but, uh, but I have a little community and, um, I, I just realized I wasn't being authentic to who I knew myself to be. Um, I wasn't living, you know, I was trying to live my purpose, but I, there was some cognitive dissonance there. And then I'd spent the last couple years like doing a lot of marketing in the nightlife and entertainment industry and, Um, really grateful for the relationships i I built there and, um, mentors and, and people that, um, lessons I was able to learn. But, um, but marketing nightclubs didn't align with who I was anymore. I didn't believe in it. I didn't really believe in getting people to go buy alcohol for a ton of money every weekend. It, it wasn't what I was trying to put into the world. And, um, so I, I said, you know, one day like, uh, I'm gonna reset everything and, and just start figuring out like, what is my authentic voice? Cuz I don't think I've ever really fully committed to bringing that out. Um, that's a vulnerable journey. It was, it was scary. And I, and I also, I decided to, um, give up, you know, to leave some of the. The engagements that I had, um, on the marketing side. And again, it wasn't like any hate to to anyone. Um, it was just more so like I, I couldn't be spending my time on it. And so I lost revenue. I lost, um, you know, a, a good chunk of my revenue actually at the time. And, and, um, so it, it was, it was definitely a little scary. It was definitely vulnerable. Um, but I How did you respond

Adam: 39:33

to that? Right, like, like I imagine if it's anything, how I felt when you had that transition. Like, I felt I got when I left my previous agency and like had my own sort of like standing for what I believe in my own ethos. Yeah. Like, it felt like I hit rock bottom. Like, I'm gonna be totally straight. Like I, I felt like I lost everything except my spark felt more alive, if that makes sense. Does that resonate? Did it feel

Will: 40:00

like a rock bottom for you? It definitely resonates. I, I think I've had. I've had, it didn't feel like a, I guess I, I had a, like a real, real rock bottom like years ago that kind of started my entrepreneurial journey. So I, I always felt like I had my feet under me to an extent, but it definitely felt like a mini rock bottom. It definitely felt like, um, okay, well, , we're, we're rebuilding again. Like, we're starting from zero again. Um, and there, but there's also excitement to that too. Um, es especially for, for anyone who's ever been an entrepreneur, like the excitement of starting and, and building something and seeing like your ideas come into the world is, is also part of the reason why we do this. And so for me it, what was exciting was knowing that. Uh, that at least now, you know, every, everything that I've done to this point has, has taught me something. It's given me a, a powerful skillset, a powerful network, um, you know, access to a lot of powerful tools. But I think, you know, one of the things that people need to learn, um, is like, I think a lot of people should spend their twenties going after what they think they want, because once they get it, they're, a lot of people will probably realize it's not actually what they wanted. And that was definitely true for me. Like, I had, I had success. Um, I thought I just wanted to make it, I thought I just wanted the money. I thought I just wanted to, you know, be relevant and, um, and create something that got traction in the world. But I realized that if I, if I do that and have success and I'm not aligned, I'm so unhappy. So

Adam: 41:48

if it's all about impact, right?

Will: 41:51

Is that what you're saying? It's about aligning the money, the impacts and like how I'm using my voice. How are you using your voice? Well, I'm trying to use it to, I, I'm trying to use it to help people who have been in the positions that I've been in. Cuz like I, as a 22, 23 year old, um, like I was around the crypto space, I had all these ideas of like how this potentially could be, um, impactful in the world. But I didn't follow those ideas. I just followed the money. Um, I didn't follow like my, I didn't follow what was really on my heart, um, to bring into the world. Like I tried to, I, and I definitely came through in moments, um, but I always kind of. Let other people that I was partnered with or um, other people that I was working with kind of take front and center and, and built around their voice instead of building around my own voice. Totally relatable. And so when you don't like, when you don't feel confident enough in your own voice and your own like model of the world to really lead yourself, then you get led down other paths by other people. Not because they're evil, but just because everyone has a different vision. Right? And it's

Adam: 43:12

the lesson that you need to learn, right?

Will: 43:14

A hundred percent. Like, like

Adam: 43:15

I'm of the proponent of responsibility over fault. And so even in the environments in my life where something traumatic or challenging or hard happens to me, I of course deal with the emotional response necessary to that because it is important to have healthy emotional expression. But, and I also ask myself like, what is, what is my responsibility here? Um, cuz that's the only thing that we can control, right? And I feel like the universe doesn't fuck it up. Like the universe doesn't give us what we're not meant to have to learn what we're, what, what is ours to

Will: 43:52

learn on the process of life, which

Adam: 43:56

is to evolve and to, to grow, right? Like, that's what everything in nature is doing constantly. That's what what it is. Growth and decay. Growth and decay. Um, but I would love to learn more of like your origins. You know, it sounds like you had a rock bottom experience that sort of catapulted your entrepreneurial journey, which I can totally relate to. Um, I was a teacher, I was totally burnt out, didn't have any money. I was over exerting myself. Like it was basically school come home and then numb out. With like marijuana and Chinese food because it's all I had the energy to do. Yeah. Like what, what is your entrepreneurial origin story?

Will: 44:35

Yeah, I was, well, I guess it kind of goes back to some experiences I had when I was 18. So I, uh, when I was 18, I had about a four to six month period where I, I was like suicidal. I was just so, um, I didn't know how to deal with my emotions. I, I just dealt with some traumatic experiences, um, in my adolescence that I'd never processed. And, um, I just, I hit a, I had a relationship end on me and, and something just snapped where I just, I couldn't handle it. Um, and so, I, I was able to, you know, thankfully I had, I always had good people in my, in my life who kind of helped pull me, um, you know, back onto the right path. And, um, so I, I was very blessed to be in, in environments where, um, you know, I, I never really fell off the rails completely. Um, but I definitely struggled and as a, as a lot of people do at times in their teens. Um, so I, I definitely relate to a lot of other people's experiences that I've, I've heard about in the last few years. Um, because I, I definitely, I was one of those teens who, um, just like had, seemed to have, you know, I was captain of the basketball team, I was a great student. Um, but something in me just like didn't, there was always something, some part of me that just didn't. Resonate with like, the way the model of the world that religious teachers and, and you know, people and teachers in my school and just older adults were, were kind of putting onto me like the path that they followed didn't seem authentic to me. Um, and so I just was, I wasn't excited about, uh, going to college and getting a career and, and working for 40 years and then, uh, you know, retiring and I think that

Adam: 46:33

consciousness is like super present. Mm-hmm. these days. Mm-hmm., like that exact same experience, just very relatable, but

Will: 46:39

continue. And so with, because I one didn't know how to deal with my emotions and never done medi. I'd never meditated. I'd never, you know, now I'm, I'm a yoga teacher. I, I meditate every day., um, have really explored my own spirituality. Spent a lot of time, you know, healing myself in my early twenties. Um, hadn't gone on that journey yet, so I just didn't know how to deal with, um, all this trauma and all these emotions that were, were in me already being, like a really hypersensitive, um, person. And then I also didn't have any like, inspiration or hope for the future at the time. Um, there was always some piece of hope in me that like, kept me going, but from the opportunities that I saw around me and the path that was kind of set before me by, you know, all the teachers, all the people, and again, no hates my family, but the, the path that they took, um, it just wasn't exciting to me. Like I, I knew there was so. more, something more meaningful to life than, um, than the traditional corporate path.

Adam: 47:45

Yeah. I always had this feeling as a kid, always. Mm-hmm., where I was like almost borderline flabbergasted. Like, this is it. Like this, this is what life is supposed to be like. This just doesn't make sense. Right. So then how did all of this challenge, this sort of like relatable 18 year old who's like, what the fuck is going on with the world? I'm feeling all of these emotions that I've likely suppressed most of my life, like., ah, I can't handle this. This is overwhelming. Maybe I should end it. Right? Like that's a common, I think, relatable story. How did that catapult you into going like, Hmm, maybe I should be an entrepreneur?

Will: 48:25

Yeah. Well, it, it happened over a period of years, right? So coming out of that dark place, I kind of found myself on like a personal growth kick. Um, you know, I discovered Tim Ferris, I discovered Tony Robbins. I started to, because like, some part of me knew that there was a, a more meaningful or more inspiring path that I could find out there. I was like, I'm gonna do everything I can to find it. And I, so I still went to, it took me a few years, um, because I still went to college. I still just kind of kept following the path I was on, you know, while I was actively searching for, um, searching for something more. But I., I just did everything. You know, I, I read tons of books. I, um, started learning about entrepreneurship. I started learning about, um, like biohacking and, and health. And at the time I actually, you know, a lot of my, uh, mental health issues, I realized later on were probably related to some of the physical health issues I, I had because I, I found out I had pretty severe mold toxicity, um, several years later. And so I just, I started kind of just developing self-knowledge. Yeah.

Adam: 49:43

There is a huge di huge Venn diagram overlap between physical health and mental health. Like huge, often totally not even discussed.

Will: 49:52

No. Yeah. Very interesting. And so I, I just started to make all these connections between the different parts of my life and, and also just like learn anything I could, consume anything I could, um, for like three, four years. And then I, I did go into the corporate world for about. Seven months. Um, but my intention was always to quit within like three years, and I ended up quitting within seven months. Um, I, I wanted to, I wanted to see what it was like, and I wanted to, for me, like learning language and learning how people think and, and just understanding different models has, has been something that's always fascinated me. So, um, I, because I had the opportunity to take a well paying job right out of college and, and I didn't really have like a business set up or, or like a strong plan. I was, you know, trying a bunch of little selling stuff on Amazon. I was just trying everything I could, but, um, because I didn't have like a million dollar business yet, I went into the corporate world and, and just kind. You know, learn that environment, which was, which was great when I was running an agency and communicating with corporate leadership to close deals and, and do marketing because I understood how to communicate, which I think is, is very underrated. Like just understanding corporate communications is, is something more entrepreneurs need to, to work on. Um, good. Just gonna

Adam: 51:21

say communication in general. Agreed. And like, the cool thing about communication is it's the tool we use to engage with literally every human being. Every single one involves communications. So probably a skillset we should engage in and try to figure out how can we find efficiencies? How can we be more authentic? How can we get our points across, how can we believe in ourselves enough to express what we're trying to communicate? Um, I just think it's,

Will: 51:45

Very important. Yeah. And it goes right back to using your voice, right? That's what it's about. Absolutely. So I no, definitely, definitely resonate with, with what you do. Cause so you're,

Adam: 51:56

you're, you're corporate there for seven months, you quit, what happens? Where do you go? What

Will: 52:01

I quit. Um, so I was starting to do consulting in the, again, like I said earlier in the show, um, I had this intuitive sense that I needed to get into media, um, and, and social media specifically. And this is,

Adam: 52:17

did you have any experience in media

Will: 52:19

prior? No. No. Okay. Not at all. Not at, so did you see it

Adam: 52:23

as like, I mean, I had social media, opportunity Media. Was, is there interest in it or was it just like divine intervention?

Will: 52:29

The, the opportunity that came up was at the time, 20 18, 19, like influencer marketing was starting to be a big thing. Um, and. Brands didn't. I had a data background and, and brands who were doing it, like there's a brand in Minneapolis, love Your Melon. They have like the hats and they used to donate to, um, child cancer research. I'm not sure if they do anymore, but, um, they spent like a million dollars on an influencer campaign and got like 10 photos and, and basically nothing from it. They had no data. Um, so people, brands were just spending, they're like, well, I need to do the, you know, with any new thing. It's like, oh, well I gotta get into this. Let's spend a bunch of money and then we'll figure out, you know, how it's valuable. And, um, so I came in and, and was working with some, some different individuals who had relationships with like larger artists and

Adam: 53:21

influencers. And So at this point in your life, was this like a full, like it went from not no corporate to like full-time entrepreneur doing the influencer media marketing stuff in

Will: 53:32

a, in about like two, three months? Yeah. Okay. Yep. Throw yourself at the wall. See what sticks. I've always, yeah, for better or for worse, I've always just gone all in on, on everything. Same. Guilty. Doesn't, uh, you know, I wouldn't always recommend it. I, I definitely, I wish I had a better understanding of entrepreneurship and like, managing money and, um, I, I wish I had a better understanding of a lot of

Adam: 53:57

things when I started. Well, what is, I mean, that, that brings up a very curious question, like, what is your biggest downfall as an

Will: 54:02

entrepreneur? Well, what happened was in 2019 when I was doing this, I, I was working with someone, um, on these, you know, doing more of the data side of, of influencer deals and stuff. Um, we were having some success and then this dude ended up stealing a bunch of money on a, on a contract and just kind of like putting, putting me out to dry, you know, with like to fend for myself. Um, and I, I was depending on like this dude's word, you know, he was, uh, we had a bunch of business going together and it pretty much all, he just took everyone's money, um, that we were working with and ran. Um, and so I was basically left with nothing, um, after having just started full-time entrepreneurship like three, four months ago. Um, and I wasn't the one who was like setting up the deals and like running the business. So, and I'd never done that before. So I pretty much just had the rug pulled from out, out from under me. Um, through that unfortunate situation I did, I met., um, I met a business partner by the name of Taio Daniel, who I started a Turner Media with, um, my marketing agency. And because we had both, um, been screwed over by this dude, we, uh, we were helping each other out. And, and he had kind of helped me navigate that situation and a little bit. And, um, so I ended up creating these relationships through that, um, through that situation that I probably never would've created, um, which is what got me into entertainment and, and into, um, a lot of the more like, music related work that I, I started doing. Um, cuz cuz he had a bunch of relationships and, um, so again, it, it forced me to learn a lot of things really quick and on the fly. And, and I think, um, in a lot of ways, especially in business, losing money is your best teacher paying is your, is your best teacher for better or for worse cuz you remember it and you, you are forced to figure out, like, in the real world, this is how I get through this situation. Instead of like, here's what the textbook says. Which I

Adam: 56:23

think is actually the role of human suffering.

Will: 56:26

Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay, so, so,

Adam: 56:29

so I'm I'm not sharing, I'm hearing the, the answer to the question, um, although maybe I can read through the lines, but what, what would you say your, your biggest struggle or downfall is as an entrepreneur?

Will: 56:42

Biggest struggle is currently, or, or biggest struggle I've overcame.

Adam: 56:47

Ooh, let's do both cuz I think both are relevant.

Will: 56:49

Okay. Yeah. The biggest, biggest struggle I overcame was being really like understanding how to, how to actually operate as an empathetic entrepreneur. As, as someone who is like really. I can, my gift, and I, I would say it's my gift and my biggest struggle is just having a really high level of empathy because I can, I can really step into people's stories and like understand their, their perspective, understand, you know, um, how they're seeing the world really quickly. And so that's great. Like if, if you want to, again, coming back to communications, if you want to communicate effectively to people, that's a really great skill. But it's also, um, it's also dangerous if you don't have like a strong sense of your own voice because you can lose yourself in other people's vision.

Adam: 57:43

So from your perspective then, is the solution set like becoming more aware of yourself, becoming more aware of, of your needs, your emotional tendencies? You're, you're expressing your ideas, like what would you say the solution set is to the empathetic entrepreneurs? Because that's kind of Yeah. We're, you know, we're both in the same space Yeah. Of really trying to empower empathetic entrepreneurs with things like boundaries and, and, um, becoming more assertive of your ideas and being more authentic to, to yourself. But like, what is the solution set to that challenge?

Will: 58:14

Yeah. I would, I would say that a hundred percent. It's it's understanding yourself, understanding what's authentic to you. Um, kind of going on that, I guess I would call it healing journey to like, really it's, if you have a high level of empathy, like there's, there's usually always like a light in a dark side to that where like you probably have some trauma or some stuff that like you need to work through. And, um, you know, once you kind of understand how to start dealing with that, you, you realize it's all a gift. Like it's all, it's all to your benefit. Because the more you go on that journey and like, um, really kind of strip away the parts of your identity that weren't you. Uh, you, you're able to really develop a voice that has a strong resonance with the people that you're meant to interact with. I mean, that's the thing about

Adam: 59:07

self-discovery is like, it can only happen experientially. You're not gonna think your way into self-discovery. You're not gonna meditate your way into self-discovery. Now meditation plays a role. Sure. But like, real life experience really matters. Um, and so, you know, as, as stereotypical as it may sound, my experience is like losing myself has been a huge component in the process of self-discovery. Was that something you can agree with?

Will: 59:37

Yeah, I think there's this concept of like the dark knight of the soul. Yeah. Um, my, my thing is like, , but I've always been a huge Batman fan. So like The Dark Knight is one of my favorite movies. I've a

Adam: 59:51

You like the original, like

Will: 59:52

the first one? Yeah. Like the, the, the Nolan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Nolan Trilogy. It's a great soundtrack. Incredible. Yeah. On Zimmer killed that one., uh, as he always does. But the, so the metaphor that I I love is like the dark. It's, it's the dark night of the soul. Like not just the dark night, but like, it's how you, it's how you bring out like what's within you. Like there's, there's this quote from the Gospel of Thomas, um, that has always stuck with me that says, I think this might be a paraphrase, but it essentially says, um, if you bring forth what is within you, um, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you. And I think especially for people who are like really intuitive, really empathetic and, and feel like they need to do, Something meaningful in the world. Like I think we both always had some intuitive sense of like, there, there's more than the path that I've been given, right? There's, I, I want to impact people's lives. I want to do something meaningful with, you know, this experience, right? Um, you, you kind of do have to go through that dark night of the soul, and part of that is it doesn't have to be completely losing yourself like it is for some people. Um, if you can do it consciously, great. I think I've done, I've done it both unconsciously and consciously now, kind of as I've gone through my journey, but there is an element of of losing yourself to find yourself.

Adam: 1:01:24

Yes. So then what would you say your biggest struggle is right now as an

Will: 1:01:29

entrepreneur? Right now? I think it's, it's communication still. It's, it's figuring out how to communicate, um, the. The, like, what I want to bring into the world now, right? Because web three is, um, web three is a big part of it and, and the models and, and kind of the ethos and thought patterns that are developing around, around web three are, um, you know, what some of what I'm trying to bring into the world and empower visionaries to use. Um, but it's still really, you know, it's still really early in that space. Um, and like, just even the concepts that I'm playing with right now are just not like, super widely understood. Um, that doesn't mean I'm, you know, a genius or anything. I'm just, I'm just playing with stuff at the edge and trying to bring it back and again, make it accessible to the rest of the world. So, so that is my biggest struggle right now is really figuring out what I can, what value I can create, like going to the edge of, of Web three, and also, You know, my own spiritual journey and just integrating all these things and then like, I really want to empower visionaries. That's because I think the people who have the ideas right now are, are just not necessarily the people who are being empowered, right? Um, in a lot of cases, like we're not optimizing for like empowering the most creative, the most visionary, uh, the people with the most potential to create an abundant future are not usually the ones who are like lifted up by society right now. And I'd want to change that.

Adam: 1:03:10

That's something I can get behind. So let's set the stage here. We're gonna start, we're gonna start wrapping things up, but there was a topic we were going to discuss about mathematics. I think we're gonna run out of time, but that could be a whole hour conversation. Well, we'll come back to that. We'll come back to that. But, but let's set the stage here. So like, let's envision somebody who's you., uh, late teens, early to mid twenties. They're kind of in that dark night of this whole experience. They're feeling kind of helpless. They're feeling kind of disencouraged by the path that they feel society has put in front of them. You know, maybe they're suicidal, they're struggling with personal belief, struggling with even sometimes getting out of bed. Um, like that's it. That's, I think, a pretty big, big portion of our society right now. What do you have to say to them as somebody who has ascended from that experience into the current phase of your journey? Like, what's, what's your call to arms?

Will: 1:04:09

Yeah, that's a really good question. Um, I, I would say, I mean, this is super cliche, but like one quote from Tony Robbins that always stuck, stuck out to me, um, was your current situation is not your. Final Destin destination. Um, I think we get really, like it's when you're, especially when you're in survival mode, like the hardest thing to do in survival mode. And the reason why it's is so hard to break these like generational patterns, um, is that when you're in survival mode, it's so hard to envision, um, a different future. Like you can only envision being in survival mode, right? Or being depressed or being, you know, whatever it is, um, that you're struggling with. And so I, I would say, um, you know, learn how to meditate and, and just try to do whatever you can to change your state of consciousness, whether it's like working out, whether that's meditating, um, whether it's, it's finding some spark, something that it inspires you. Um, even if it's small, even if it's like five minutes a day, you know, find some, some thread that you can pull that, um, that. Allows you to envision a better future for yourself. Um, cuz if you can start to imagine that, then it will start to become real. Yeah. It reminds

Adam: 1:05:35

me of a quote I heard the other day, which was to have vision is to see beyond the current condition of pain. Like to see past that threshold, I paraphrased it and probably butchered it, but that was the basic principle. Um, moving, motivating, uh, where, where can people find you? How, how do we, how do we stay in touch with Will

Will: 1:05:56

Preble? Yeah, you can find me. My social handle is, is King. Will, uh, William, it's xm, so King Will XM on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, um, I'm on LinkedIn actually spend a lot more time on, on LinkedIn these days too. So social is probably the best place to find me right now.

Adam: 1:06:17

Cool. I'm just gonna give you some rapid fire questions. Hit me. Cool movie that you would recommend everybody. watch. Definitely The Dark Knight. I knew it a book that changed

Will: 1:06:28

your life, crime and Punishment. By who? Uh, dte fc Tell me about it is old Russian literature. It's like the writing is crazy, but, um, the thing about Crime and Punishment that stood out to me was like, it basically understanding that we all have light and dark within us and that, um, like we, we wanna feel like we're always right, but like being able to, we, we have to integrate our shadow, um, if, if we're going to ascend, right? So crime and punishment really like, takes you through this, this dude's. This intellectual dude who has all these justifications for what he's doing. It, it kind of takes you through his journey to, um, moral redemption. Um, and I think it's really relevant for the age we live in cuz people are very incentivized to, um, kind of stay in their box of, of moral authority. When in reality if we can't empathize with someone on the other side, if we can't understand that we all have heaven and hell within us, um, you know, we're, we're never gonna change.

Adam: 1:07:39

And I think, uh, for me personally, I think humanity right now is on the path of redemption. And redemption is a very specific quality. Um, and it's definitely something I can stand behind in, in a, in a sort of like challenging day. What's your go-to song?

Will: 1:07:55

Mm, I like the, recently, the, the, I think it's used, this gospel remix on the DJ Khaled album.

Adam: 1:08:05

Kanye song. Yeah. Rock on You. You've always been into

Will: 1:08:08

Kanye.. Yeah. I mean, you, you definitely, there's always love hate moments with Kanye, but, um, that's, I think he's a visionary for sure. Hey, rock

Adam: 1:08:16

on. Any closing thoughts, my friend?

Will: 1:08:19

Yeah, I mean, I would say if you're at all curious about web three, um, you know, start Googling stuff and, and just learning what you can, I think the more, the more smart people, the more empathetic people that at least understand what's going on. The better right now. You don't have to go become a developer, but um, you know, explore your curiosity with it because it'll lead you somewhere. Hey, rock

Adam: 1:08:44

on. Well again, we've got Will Preble here today. I appreciate you coming on. It's been so nice to connect. I've missed you.

Will: 1:08:51

So it's been a minute. It's been a minute. Let's not, uh, let's not wait this long to have the next conversation. Hey, man,

Adam: 1:08:55

I'm sure the conversations will happen just in divine timing. Thanks for listening out there, and we'll see you next week. Peace. Well that's a wrap. Again, this is Voice and Impact podcast. My name is Adam. Thanks for being here. Thanks for being you. Thanks for doing all the good

Will: 1:09:11

things you

Adam: 1:09:12

do, and we'll see you next week.